Dr Whooo

[green_amber]

Alright I'm tired of saving the world, owed some fun :)



Feelings, not criticism. mostly

That ending - god those sexual poliics are dodgy. I feel kind of dirty, almost. Real Dr really luurves Rose so... (a) he can't commit - even to say he loves her (b) he's happy to hand her over to his own clone (the ego!) who is also a mass murderer and fuck up (this is love?) Yes he looks miserable but is he sexually jealous of FakeDoctor? Not really. Hmm. Some hero male role model.. Also mass murdering fucked up FakeDr CAN commit. Because he won't live any longer than Rose. Mmm - again cool message huh? yes when you reach 40 men, quick leave old hag in favour of young child bearing model!

If this satisfies Rose shippers I'll be amazed. My overall impresion is of enormous aspergers emotional detachment /disregard phrased as "love is what I see as your best interests" - RealDr feels sad to have lost his little Earth girl but it's Ok, it had to be done. And Rose gets to be a therapetic sex surrogate for FakeDr. Wow. Cool gift. I'm sorry, I'm not being overly feminist, really, and I actually rather LIKED the Rose love story though I wasn't a fangirl shipper - it was classic in its way - and I just don't like this resolution. It smells bad in lots of ways.

Of course what could happen - and I really would quite like to see - is that things go spectacularly bad with Rose and FuckedupDr, perhaps Rose dies in an accident or something (Billy Piper wil never want to come back again, surely?) or even Alt DR KILLS her in a rage (oo-er) and AltDr becomes BAD DOCTOR. Now there's a new villain for you and a half. And Rose did say they'd built a new Tardis right?? (I can barely remember now actually why RealDr and Rose have to part. No one really believes it now it seems as easy as that to skip between dimensions, instead of requiring the energy of a supernova. Which makes RealDr shoving Rose off as sex maid onto Fake Dr seem all the more callous. We should have had a flashback to remind people like me..)

Why did the reality ray (or whatever it was called) do all that disrupting of dimensions (esp as it only got used on daleks in the end not aLL THE UNIVERSE)? It wasn't a time OR dimension weapon, it just tore molecules apart. Bombs do that on a smaller scale. How did all this fling Rose around, causes all the worlds to run ninto each other, do weird shit to Donna etc? How did Tardis know way back Donna would be special so as to beam her on to Tardis from her wedding? Computer say no. (or was it the fake Tradis Alt Rose built which really caused all this shit? I thought that at one point but no one shouted at Rose, so I guess not?)

The rest - I pretty much loved. (THis is really not meant to be a negative review.)Loved Davros recognising SJS; Donna's fantastically funny take on "Being David Tennant" - god that woman can ACT!!!! Mickey and Martha for Torchwood yay! Mickey at least might make them less wooden and Martha less useless :) Is Mickey having a thing on the side with Rose's mum??? Oo-er. Jack's line about what he'd do with 2 Doctors - priceless:)

And essentially no reset, you know, really. Oster Hagen thingy not used. Clone Dr not killed off as I was absolutely expecting. Donna not killed off. Earth people left to work out what they belive, no mind wipe, no "it never happened". Harriet Jones indeed still dead. RTD has learnt quite a lot in last 4 years. Rose *should* have been killed off tho, sigh. No victories without casualties, hasn;t he read any Classics? Some very good tying up of motifs eg, the Dr's anbivalent non-violence. But shouldn't someone have mentioned how many more people died in the world-without-Dr? That was Donna's job SURELY.

(And doesn't RTD get that if the Dr is really someone who runs from the consequences of his actions leaving others to suffer - an interesting idea - RTD has written him that way far more so in his romantic relationships? But I don't think he (RTD) actually *sees* that.)

RTD having a go at his, aka Donna's, mum? Bit near\ the knuckle for soap tv.

I like that over RTD's reign, the Dr has indeed - don't barf - gone on a JOURNEY. Personal growth. As evidenced by comparison to FakeDr.

Now when do we get River Song? What we/he needs - Dr moving on from gadding round universe leaving corpses philandering stage. Time to put away the WiiFit and move on from the kidult stage.

WEirdest response I've yet seen on finale : fides suggesting Jack's coat is immortal just like Jack (even when he's disintegarted) cos Jack sweats a lot and sometimes wears\ the coat with nothing else under it so it's become part of his "body". Wow, these slash writers think of everything.

Comments

[percyprune.livejournal.com]

I heart River Song. I do so hope the Grand Moff gives us some guest performances.

[frandowdsofa.livejournal.com]

Journeys End in Lovers' Meetings.

I too thought Rose got dumped on from a great height. Of course, they might BREED. That'll be fun.

[iainjclark.livejournal.com]

I agree that the Rose-Doctor-Doctor#2 ending feels wrong. But for me what makes it wrong isn't quite that Rose is settling for second best or that either is there for the comfort of the other. I've been trying to work out what exactly it is that I don't like.

One problem is that Doctor#2 has no sense of agency. He doesn't seem to make a choice or argue against the outcome. Instead he instantly accepts that he'll spend the rest of his life with Rose leading a human life on one planet. He completely defers to the real Doctor in a way that seems... un-Doctorish. It's a shorthand plot convenience, not characterisation. We're left to assume, I suppose, that he's human enough to feel differently about settling down. We're left to assume it because he hardly says a word.

Also, presumably, Doctor#2 whispers Rose that he loves her - but if that's the case then the real Doctor must love her too since it was what he was going to say in Doomsday (and still can't say now). So surely he should be much more broken up about this arrangement? What consolation is it to him that Rose gets to be happy with a version of him - he should be devastated, weeping. Instead he seems melancholic. You can read it as the ultimate selfless act in that sense - she'll be happy without him - or the ultimate selfish act - he just can't commit to her. Either way it just doesn't quite feel right.

Rose I have less problem with, because she does actively get to choose Doctor#2: the Doctor who can tell her he loves her; the Doctor who can commit. That's not quite so bad for me. I don't have a problem with Doctor#2 being angry, or the concept that Rose can help him heal. He's not angry in a way that makes him a threat to Rose, because he's directly equated with Eccleston's Doctor at the start of the first season in terms of temperament. He's no more of a mass murderer than the Ninth Doctor. And the healing is a part of their relationship, not a job Rose has been assigned. What does still seem wrong is that Rose has to be shoved back into a parallel Universe when Mickey doesn't - that's another plot convenience, taking her out of the series for good. (Well, until the next time the dimensions come crashing down.)

Above all it doesn't feel satisfying. Despite my apathy towards the idea, Rose coming back promised great emotional things but she was just... there. So many other recurring characters were in the mix that if anything this story served to show that all of the Doctor's "companions" are equally special, equally affected by him, and equally devoted to him. Rose is just one of their number. I never quite felt the special Doctor-Rose bond in this story, partly because it didn't seem to hurt enough when it was broken. Indeed the ending feels less like a romantic consumation between Rose and a version of The Doctor, and more like a gentle break-up between people who have grown apart. I'm not averse to that outcome - indeed I prefer it - but having Rose stay with Doctor#2 just muddies the emotional waters and makes it feel quite weird.

I did like the most of the episode, though.

[andrewducker]

So surely he should be much more broken up about this arrangement?
I think he really is. He certainly doesn't look happy.

You can read it as the ultimate selfless act in that sense - she'll be happy without him - or the ultimate selfish act - he just can't commit to her.
Surely it can be both? His "duty" and sense of reality both tell him he can't be with her, so he leaves her to someone she can have. He knows that in the long run he'd end up leaving her, so best to do it sooner rather than try and give her a commitment he'd never be able to hold to.

[davesangel.livejournal.com]

In regards to the Rose situation...I was initially unhappy that she ended up with a Doctor who wasn't *the* Doctor. If that makes sense. Ie, she has come all this way, done so much to get to him and he kind of dumps her again. But having thought about it all again I don't know if it's necessarily that bad. It's evident that the *real* Doctor DOES love her ("Does it really need saying?" - he does love her but can't bring himself to say it because if he did he'd take her with him and he can't do that, for whatever reason...I think because he realises that she could be happy with the alt. him because they can live together and grow old together, like a happy-ever-after story which he cant' have cos he's not human) and this new one at least said that he loves her. And ok, he is perhaps a 'mass murderer' BUT he's a lot like the Ninth Doctor was when she first met him and as the Doctor said, he has all of his memories and feelings so it is him in a way. And this alt. him is happy to commit to her and love her, which is what she deserves...

But yet he's not the real Doctor. And it's sad because he could give himself a happier life by taking Rose with him on the TARDIS and being with her again. Because it's clear that yes he *does* love her but he can't allow himself to have that happiness. Which really is sad.

I watched Confidential afterwards and they were saying that he does love her but has to condemn himself to a life on his own cos he's not human and implying that he wants her to be happy so giving her a man who is him, with his feelings and emotions (ie, his love for Rose) is better cos they can be together until they both die...and there were suggestions that Rose could come back. Dunno if she will if Moffatt is at the helm but given her references to the time machine that they'd created, it is possible...

[moral-vacuum.livejournal.com]

I notice no cliffhanger leading straight into the Christmas special. This of course allows for huge amounts of missing adventures in books, entire sets of companions etc (like River Song). That's probably intentional (and will probably explain when River Song happened, when Alex Kingston doesn't come back before Tennant regenerates).

2 Doctors

[jimtrash.livejournal.com]

Wonderful idea that battle doctor could turn all evil an' stuff.
Terrible weasel using battle doctor and Donna Doctor to take the destroy all daleks decision. The Doctor would have needed to take that decision and that would have made him battle doctor. What was the alternative?

YAY! I can take part in the crits!

[girl-onthego.livejournal.com]

I think it's interesting that we both kick off with sexual politics. Hrm.

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I think it's interesting that we both kick off with sexual politics. Hrm.

<<actually why RealDr and Rose have to part. No one really believes it now it seems as easy as that to skip between dimensions,>>

Seriously.

<<Why did the reality ray (or whatever it was called)>>

bomb

<<do all that disrupting of dimensions (esp as it only got used on daleks in the end not aLL THE UNIVERSE)? It wasn't a time OR dimension weapon, it just tore molecules apart. Bombs do that on a smaller scale. How did all this fling Rose around, causes all the worlds to run ninto each other, do weird shit to Donna etc?>>

Nono, I think that was fate, making things happen to Donna. The message I got was that it was destiny she was there to make everything bo OK. :)

<<How did Tardis know way back Donna would be special so as to beam her on to Tardis from her wedding? Computer say no. (or was it the fake Tradis Alt Rose built which really caused all this shit? I thought that at one point but no one shouted at Rose, so I guess not?)>>

Ooooooooooooooooooooo interesting idea.

<<The rest - I pretty much loved. (THis is really not meant to be a negative review.)Loved Davros recognising SJS;>>

Is that old DW?

<< Donna's fantastically funny take on "Being David Tennant" - god that woman can ACT!!!!>>

YAH! I keep thinking that! I <3 Catherine Tate!

<< Mickey and Martha for Torchwood yay! Mickey at least might make them less wooden and Martha less useless :) Is Mickey having a thing on the side with Rose's mum??? Oo-er. Jack's line about what he'd do with 2 Doctors - priceless:)>>

But, um, nobody (torchwood!) had (torchwood) SEX!

<<And essentially no reset, you know, really. Oster Hagen thingy not used. Clone Dr not killed off as I was absolutely expecting. Donna not killed off.>>

Me too. I kinda flipped about that in my own entry.

<< Earth people left to work out what they belive, no mind wipe, no "it never happened". Harriet Jones indeed still dead. RTD has learnt quite a lot in last 4 years. Rose *should* have been killed off tho, sigh. No victories without casualties, hasn;t he read any Classics? Some very good tying up of motifs eg, the Dr's anbivalent non-violence. But shouldn't someone have mentioned how many more people died in the world-without-Dr? That was Donna's job SURELY.>>

But wasn't Donna the casualty? I thought we learned about how many more people dired in the previous ep or two?

I did feel like this was the first time RTD was able to fully realize his potential on this show, vs previous ones.

(And doesn't RTD get that if the Dr is really someone who runs from the consequences of his actions leaving others to suffer - an interesting idea - RTD has written him that way far more so in his romantic relationships? But I don't think he (RTD) actually *sees* that.)

RTD having a go at his, aka Donna's, mum? Bit near\ the knuckle for soap tv.

I like that over RTD's reign, the Dr has indeed - don't barf - gone on a JOURNEY. Personal growth. As evidenced by comparison to FakeDr.

Now when do we get River Song? What we/he needs - Dr moving on from gadding round universe leaving corpses philandering stage. Time to put away the WiiFit and move on from the kidult stage.

WEirdest response I've yet seen on finale : [info]fides suggesting Jack's coat is immortal just like Jack (even when he's disintegarted) cos Jack sweats a lot and sometimes wears\ the coat with nothing else under it so it's become part of his "body". Wow, these slash writers think of everything.

[julia-winolj.livejournal.com]

I thought that the cover-all-unlikely-plot-connections was caused by (the Wrath of) Dalek Khan. They would have ended up where they all were at the end anyway, but he had been fiddling (or possibly twitching rather a lot) with timelines and stuff to create the situation that would provide him with his perfect ending - the destruction of the Darleks forever (at least until the writers run out of ideas again) because he had judged them and found them unworthy of life.

BTW did we ever completely discover what was on Donna's back? I know there was that bug from the Turn Left - No - Right - No Left episode, but the psychic woman at the Shadow Proclamation pointed out that there was still something there - is there something further I missed, was it Darlek Khan peeping over her shoulder, or is there potential for a Donna resurgence somewhere sometime later with either (da-da-da-dum) certain death or her just shouting at the universe for its own good?